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#203239 - 11/05/19 08:28 PM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: Whitworth]
Franchise
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Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 4548
Loc: Castalia, NC

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Abner....its all HYPE....you'd be better with a solid monometal FP
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#203245 - 11/05/19 09:36 PM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: Franchise]
sixshot
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Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 789

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That was my point right from the beginning about Phil, great guy with a great reputation but he almost made a very grave mistake. Not with the bullet but with the tiny little gun. As Max said, if it had been straight on perhaps all 3 of them would have been dead. That's what I said right from the start, no bullet would have bailed them out with the little 9mm.

But again, for North America I can make a cast that will handle anything we have. I can do it with both expansion & penetration or just flat out penetration. That's why my bullet box is practically empty after well over 100 kills with cast up through moose, many elk & some big bears. If they went out the other side I guess I had enough. Guessing I'm still going to lose!!

Dick

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#203246 - 11/05/19 09:42 PM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: sixshot]
45MAN
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Registered: 08/13/17
Posts: 1648
Loc: brownsville, texas

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SIXSHOT: YOU ARE A LEAD "MIDAS" AND KNOW HOW TO MATCH ALLOY TO VELOCITY TO THE GAME/TASK AT HAND.
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#203249 - 11/05/19 11:57 PM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: 45MAN]
sixshot
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Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 789

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Ya but Rey, I still can't match you & some of the others when it comes to the really big animals, I have never went there. And that's where the really good, premium bullets rule, I just like to jump in & take a beating every month or so.....

Dick

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#203251 - 11/06/19 05:59 AM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: sixshot]
sw282
addict


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 526
Loc: CSRA of GA/SC

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A poly-coated cast LEAD bullet can be propelled about as fast as

a jacketed one... Want the bullet a bit harder? Simply add some

tin to the pot.. Want the bullet LOTS harder?? Cast them from ZINC.

You just need a bit more heat.. A solid zinc bullet is hard enough

to penetrate most any animal stem to stern.. Where can l get zinc

for casting? Same place lead is found.. Wheel Weights

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#203259 - 11/06/19 09:15 AM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: sixshot]
Whitworth
Shootist


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 9836
Loc: Virginia

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 Originally Posted By: sixshot
Ya but Rey, I still can't match you & some of the others when it comes to the really big animals, I have never went there. And that's where the really good, premium bullets rule, I just like to jump in & take a beating every month or so.....

Dick


The beating is unwarranted. In my humble opinion, cast are more than adequate for most animals. The fact of the matter is that you tailor your bullets for that task at hand, and need to be commended for that. You also might see more success than most because you can place your bullets and I sometimes feel that certain "failures" are really a result of poor shot placement either not being realized or not being acknowledged. When the animals get really big and really expensive and/or the animal is capable of doing me some real harm, that is where I draw the monolithic line.

All that said, I used flat-nosed hardcast bullets on a lot of animals over the years and never experienced "caliber sized holes" or slow death or any of the other oft cited complaints. My old .475 with a 420 over 1,350 fps was lightning in a bottle on deer and hog-sized game. Same thing with my first .500 JRH. When they hit, it put the animals on queer street.
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#203260 - 11/06/19 09:41 AM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: Whitworth]
Randy M
veteran


Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 1296
Loc: New Braunfels, TX

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Admittedly, I'm primarily a jacketed guy now. But I also do 99% of hunting in Texas for deer/hogs. I did however load up some cast for my new 41 to carry as a back up in New Mexico for Elk.

Years ago when I hunted exclusively with a 44 SBHH I was using a 300 grain cast over either H110 or 2400. Can't remember the exact load, but it wasn't very hot by 'book' standards.

I noticed over time that even on animals hit in the vitals, my blood trails seemed sparce and long. I attributed it to the 'cast' bullet.

While I'll stay primarily a jacketed guy, I have definitely learned over the years (mainly reading here) that not all cast are equal. Chalk it up to inexperience on my part years ago, to not realize you could actually alter the composition within 'cast' to make it perform differently. I always just ordered a plethora from a reputable company and went from there. I'm not knocking those companies at all, because they obviously have to build for the masses.

Anyway, I'm not 100% sure where I was going with this post other than it's made me want to experiment with different types of cast just for the heck of it. Especially now that we have hogs-galore on our lease. Perfect experiment animal.
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#203272 - 11/06/19 01:23 PM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: Randy M]
sixshot
old hand


Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 789

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Max is spot on, why risk an expensive hunt & not use the best bullet you can buy, makes no sense. A bullet is a very small expense compared to hunt costs, airline tickets, guns, daily rates, etc. Don't fudge on a bullet.

If you're using a 300 gr cast bullet on deer, that can pose a problem, switch to 240's or 250's, drop the alloy hardness to 9-11 BHN & run your load 1200-1300 fps & you'll shoot length ways through any deer out there. That will get you a blood trail! I can show you many gut piles, hearts & lungs that I've shot with cast bullets that you would swear were shot with a 7 mm magnum.

If there's a univeral mistake with cast bullets it's using a bullet that's too hard. For deer & antelope I've having great success with these Miha HP's but not for the bigger stuff. Still getting lots of penetration, mostly exits with the correct alloy.

Dick


Edited by sixshot (11/06/19 01:25 PM)

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#203283 - 11/06/19 08:59 PM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: sixshot]
wheelguns
old hand


Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Western Montana

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Thanks Dick, it's always good to hear from someone with lots of experience. Never would have thought to go with a lighter and softer bullet.
My experience with cast has been very hit and miss. Was always lead to believe to go heavy and hard with a large meplat.
Would love to see you do a write up on all your experiences with cast and taking game with cast. Heck you could probably write a book.

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#203284 - 11/06/19 10:27 PM Re: Copper and Brass vs Hard Cast [Re: wheelguns]
sixshot
old hand


Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 789

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Wheelguns, I can get in enough trouble just writing a few lines, a book would be a nightmare. This was one of my best bulls ever, taken in the Selway country when a lot of these bulls had never seen a human. Late sixties or early 70's with the old model 44 flat top in the Lawrence #7 shoulder rig. It was a long shot, about 30 yds with a 250 gr Keith & 21 grs of 2400. There were bulls all around me, I had my pick.


Dick

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