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#197830 - 02/24/19 09:44 AM 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester
Bob Roach
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I have had a new set of 358 dies in the shop for years. I always planned on having a 358 rifle built, but never did.
In the last year I have added an Encore to my hunting handguns. I now have an action that will stand 356 Winchester ammunition. I also have a CVA Scout that I have had rechambered to 357 Maximum that would also stand the 356 Winchester.

I have been a 35 Caliber fan for years. I have both 357 Maximums and a 35 Bullberry. A 356 Winchester should be a 200 fps improvement over the 35 Bullberry I would think.

I believe SAWFISH may have a 356 handgun from a post on another forum, just wondering what others might have and what they think about the chambering.
Also what parent case works best, 307 Winchester of 444 Marlin?

Bob R
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#197835 - 02/24/19 01:09 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Bob Roach]
45MAN
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Registered: 08/13/17
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I HAVE A RPM XL IN 356 BUT I SENT ITS FRAME TO JIM ROCK TO GET ANOTHER BARREL FITTED TO IT AND NOW THE 356 DOESN'T QUITE FIT RIGHT. YEARS AGO I SPOKE WITH GARY WRIGLEY, JIM ROCK'S SON-IN-LAW, WHO AT ONE TIME TOOK OVER RPM, AND HE SAID HE CUD FIX THE PROBLEM, BUT I NEVER GOT AROUND TO DOING IT. I LOADED THE 356 WITH THE HORNADY 180gr SSP BULLET TO AROUND 2,400fps AND KILLED A FEW GOOD BUCKS WITH IT. I BELIEVE YOU CAN LOAD HEAVIER FOR THE 356 IN AN ENCORE THAN IN A XL. IF YOU CAN'T FIND 356 BRASS OR AMMO I WUD TRY 307, BUT I ONLY EVER USED 356 BRASS.
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#197837 - 02/24/19 03:24 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: 45MAN]
H2OBUG
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Registered: 02/13/08
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I had a 356 in a rifle and handgun Encore. MGM barrels with Shilen blanks

Both shot really well with the 180gr Speer hot core.
I also used the 180 Hornady SSPB--still have a few.

Killed a pile of critters with the handgun

http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3590



Edited by H2OBUG (03/01/19 12:17 PM)
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#197839 - 02/24/19 08:30 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: H2OBUG]
500WE
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Like Rey, I also have an RPM in .356 Win. I use the 180 Speer FN. I have only used .356 cases, and never had to form any from another parent. They are plenty strong. Reforming from .307 Win. should be little problem.

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#197840 - 02/25/19 12:18 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: 500WE]
Bob Roach
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Looking like the 180 Speer FP is a popular bullet for the 356. I have killed a lot of deer with that bullet in the past fired from a 35 Whelen Rifle.

Bob
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#197841 - 02/25/19 07:45 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Bob Roach]
45MAN
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Registered: 08/13/17
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ALTHOUGH THE 180 HORNADY SSP's WORKED I THOUGHT THEY WERE TOO FRANGIBLE AT THOSE VELOCITIES. I DO NOT THINK THEY ARE AVAILABLE NOW, BUT IF THEY WERE I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THEM FOR THE 356.

BTW, I SHOT A SMALL HOG WITH MINE, FROM A REST IN A BLIND, AT 276 YARDS, GREAT SHOT, SICKLY PIG THAT WAS NOT WORTH KEEPING.
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"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.

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#197843 - 02/25/19 03:20 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: 45MAN]
Sawfish
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Registered: 02/10/04
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My RPM is a .356/.358 Win. It was originally a .358 Win, but I had Jim Rock cut a rim in the chamber to accommodate the rimmed .356 Win. case. I had this done so I could have a rimmed case for my .358 Win. loads. I can change back to ,358 Win by simply changing extractors. Factory .358 Win loads are stouter than the .356 Win. factory loads, in deference to the perceived strength limitations of the Model 94 Win., and the few Marlin 336 and Savage 99 rifles chambered for .356 Winchester. You can load both calibers the same in an Encore or RPM. The RPM XL guns are actually stronger than the Encores by virtue of their design. The large bottom lug of the RPM barrels bears directly on the frame. You can actually fire an RPM XL without the barrel retaining screw for this reason. The strength point is academic because both guns will easily withstand .358 or .356 factory loads. I have fired many rounds through my 30/06 and .35 Whelen Improved Encores with no problems. For what it is worth, I generally use 200 gr. R-P SPCL or Hornady 200 gr. SP bullets in these calibers.
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#197845 - 02/26/19 07:22 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Sawfish]
45MAN
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RE THE RELATIVE STRENGTH OF THE XL vs. THE ENCORE, FACTORY 376 270gr STEYR AMMO WILL LOCK UP A XL BUT NOT AN ENCORE. THE XL MAY BE STRONGER BUT WITH HOT LOADS IT CAN TRULY BECOME A "SINGLE SHOT" UNTIL YOU CAN GET 'ER OPEN AGAIN.
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"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.

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#197848 - 02/26/19 04:58 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: 45MAN]
Sawfish
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I guess you can tear anything up!
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#197903 - 03/03/19 08:10 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Sawfish]
Bob Roach
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I sent off my order to MGM. I ordered an Encore Barrel, in stainless steel. Length 15.875". Full 1" Bull like my 260 Remington, and 7.62x53R Barrels. Drilled for the 6 screw scope base. I will need to get a six screw Bullberry base on order. I believe I still have an extra Hanger Bar for the Bullberry Forend. I will need to get another HLR 4 Gill Muzzle Brake picked up. I need to get a dummy round or two assembled and sent to MGM to get the Throat optimized.

From my research so far the Hornady 200 grain FTX does not look like a bad choice in bullets for the 356 Win at Handgun Velocity. It is rated as being a little tougher constructed than a 180 SSP, but not as tough as the Speer 180 or Sierra 200 RN. I will need to check this bullet out. I have a box on hand that I got to work with in my 35 Bullberry.
I still have at least a full box of Hornady 180 SSP's on hand. They should give me a bench mark on expansion and penetration when I get to Fackler Water Box Testing.

I have 60 New 356 Win Cases on hand. That should last a very long time hunting. My semi local reloading supply Carters near Willow Springs Missouri has a bag of Winchester 307 on the shelf. I will pick that bag up for my load work up, and bullet testing. Save the 356 brass for use after load development. The 50 used in load development and bullet testing may be a little the worst for wear when I am through.

Bob R
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#197904 - 03/03/19 09:40 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Bob Roach]
KYODE
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Registered: 01/18/04
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Awesome bob! Should be heck of a thumper.
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#197914 - 03/03/19 06:41 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Bob Roach]
cmnash
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Registered: 07/23/10
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 Originally Posted By: Bob Roach


From my research so far the Hornady 200 grain FTX does not look like a bad choice in bullets for the 356 Win at Handgun Velocity.




I have shot several animals, including 3 elk, with the 200 grain FTX 35 Rem factory load at just under 2000 fps from my 14 inch Contender. Performance has been okay on deer sized game and great on the elk. I am of the opinion that another 2-300 fps would really make this bullet work.

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#197921 - 03/03/19 07:51 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Bob Roach]
billa
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Registered: 02/12/05
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I have hunted with a Contender 358JDJ since the early 80s. It?s performance is less than your 356 Win but close enough for this discussion. My favorite deer bullet is the Speer 220 grain flat point. It is s real hammer at 2100-2200fps muzzle velocity out of my Contender. Good expansion, pass through penetration at any angle on deer sized game. I like it better than the lighter spire point bullets. It would probably be good for up to Elk sized game. When I went to Africa I chose the Hornady 250 grain Interlock spire point and that bullet performed well on my Kudu and smaller plains game out to 200 yards.
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#197927 - 03/04/19 07:21 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: billa]
45MAN
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BILLA: ARE YOU SURE THAT A 356 WILL OUTDO A 358JDJ? I DO NOT HAVE ONE, BUT THE 358JDJ IS AN IMPRESSIVE CARTRIDGE (THAT IS CONTENDER COMPATIBLE).
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"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.

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#197928 - 03/04/19 07:49 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: 45MAN]
billa
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No arguments from me on the impressiveness of the 358JDJ. It?s all I have ever needed and I like hunting with the Contender over the Encore. I think the 356 Win may get a bit more velocity in an Encore but from my experience on game with the 358JDJ, Dead is dead!!!
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"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... "
Matthew 28:19

Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since!
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#197938 - 03/04/19 03:34 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: billa]
Sawfish
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Registered: 02/10/04
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Loc: Peoples Republik of Kalifornia

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I have all three calibers and these are chronographed results with the Nosler 225 gr. Partition.

.358 Win. RPM XL 15" Barrel/ 48.0 gr. AA-2520/ 2301 fps;
.356 Win. RPM XL 15" Barrel/ 48.0 gr. AA-2520/ 2250 fps;
.358 JDJ SSK Contender 14" G-2/ 53.0 gr. AA-2520/ 2216 fps;

None of these exceed published loads. Performance is pretty much a wash with these three rounds. You could massage the .356/.358 and possibly get and bit more velocity. The JDJ is at its limit with this loading in the Contender. These loads represent the best combination of accuracy and performance in my guns. If you can't kill it with a 225 gr. Nosler at 2200+ these calibers will not help you.
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#197941 - 03/04/19 04:26 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Sawfish]
billa
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Great information Sawfish. Thanks. I have never used the 225 Nosler but I assume it?s an effective game bullet.
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"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... "
Matthew 28:19

Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since!
HHI member #992, NRA, SCI.

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#197942 - 03/04/19 04:41 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Bob Roach]
billa
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Bob, getting back to your original question about the 356 in the Encore. I think it will be a great round. I would always choose a rimmed case for hunting as they usually just fall out with extraction. Much easier to reload with gloves on.
_________________________
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... "
Matthew 28:19

Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since!
HHI member #992, NRA, SCI.

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#197944 - 03/04/19 06:32 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: billa]
Sawfish
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Registered: 02/10/04
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Loc: Peoples Republik of Kalifornia

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 Originally Posted By: billa
Great information Sawfish. Thanks. I have never used the 225 Nosler but I assume it?s an effective game bullet.
It is a great bullet, and very accurate. I killed a 171 lb. Blacktail 7 point. at 70 yds. with my .358 JDJ a few years back. In true Nosler Partition fashion, the nose separated from the 225 gr. bullet, leaving the remainder intact with 67% weight retention. The deer was facing me at an angle, and the bullet was recovered in the offside ham. This is my favorite bullet in the medium 35 calibers. In the heavier calibers (.35 Whelen Improved, .358 Norma, etc.) I use the 250 Speer Hot Cor or the old 250 gr. Speer Grand Slam.
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#197945 - 03/04/19 06:36 PM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: billa]
Sawfish
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 Originally Posted By: billa
I would always choose a rimmed case for hunting
Pretty much what Jim Rock said when I asked him to cut a rim in my .358 Win barrel.
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#198917 - 04/13/19 01:54 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Sawfish]
Bob Roach
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I guess I had better get my Bullberry Scope Bases on order. I received an e-mail from MGM today. The 356 Winchester Barrel is in the mail.
I have the Bullberry Hanger Bar on hand to mount the forend. I have a new in the box Weaver Classic Extreme 2.5-10 X 50mm with German #4 reticle ready to install on it. I also have a new anti cant device (Bubble Level) for the scope.

I should probably get to loading some test ammo in the 307 Win cases. I am planning on doing my load development using the 307 cases, and save the hard to get 356 Win cases for hunting ammo.

Bob R
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#198924 - 04/13/19 11:07 AM Re: 356 Winchester / 358 Winchester [Re: Bob Roach]
JDK
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We expect full, detailed reports with regular updates Bob!
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