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#199359 - 05/01/19 02:59 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: Jeff460]
tradmark
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Im not sure i understand what you are saying?

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#199360 - 05/01/19 03:51 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: tradmark]
Jeff460
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Registered: 12/01/17
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To reply, I mean the given being bullet placement, then bullet performance on said game is what matters. Not the supposed reputation of a type of bullet. Now logic dictates a solid bullet i.e. Cutting Edge Bullet or Punch Bullet, will not deform and lose performance as expanding bullets may or may not exhibit. And the A-frame bullet is boringly predictable in its exhibited performance after entering the hide and interior plumbing of the animal. But hard cast that performs well will do as well as the CEB or Punch bullet as long as it holds together and does not damage its meplat as it penetrates.
Does that make anymore sense?

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#199361 - 05/01/19 05:19 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: Jeff460]
tradmark
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Yes, i get it now. Much clearer. Unfortunately u cant tell when the hardcast will do that. No sense finding out it wont hold together once its thru the shoulder of a buffalo

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#199373 - 05/02/19 09:13 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: tradmark]
Jeff460
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I agree with the unpredictability of the meplat as it makes contact with heavy bone. All the more reason for water quenching and using alloys that will be tough but not brittle. The Garret formula of alloy used for the Garret, and now owned by Ashley Emerson, Hammerhead design is ultra reliable.
So discounting cast bullets as unreliable offhand is not fair or just. In my honest opinion of never say never...

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#199376 - 05/02/19 09:28 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: Jeff460]
tradmark
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Ive seen garrets fracture before. I agree on the issue of using a reliable alloy......like copper! How many big animals have you shot that you have based these conclusions on?


Edited by tradmark (05/02/19 09:29 AM)

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#199377 - 05/02/19 09:49 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: tradmark]
Jeff460
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Trying to discount me is what that question is meant to do. I will not retreat. I am a teacher and my funds do not allow me to experience world travel. And dispatching bovine flesh is not big game, but still revealing as to what kills, as is dropping bison which would be a traditional big game animal. So I will endorse good hard-cast bullets at adequate velocities, as has been proven effective in my arena of life.
I know what I have seen used kills effectively and I know normally docile bovine can become very aggressive in a split-second. But killing is just killing and even Karamojo Bell, who killed over a thousand elephants with most falling to a 7x57 using a 175 grain FMJ bullet. In his writings he self-disclosed that some elephants mysteriously were unharmed after he had made a precise aimed shot, and he was lucky enough to survive some close calls to tell the tale when all did not go as planned.
So after about a thousand elephants taken, he still had some things happen that surprised him. He theorized that the 7mm bullet would bend or deflect enough to miss the brain. So he upped his arsenal to a 318 Westley Richards and the problem was solved, in his mind. He even wrote later, after the .308 was made into a factory round, that a .308 with 240 grain FMJ bullets running about 2300 fps, would be his new choice for braining elephants.
And domestic fenced in bulls have killed unarmed men working with them, as an uncle of John Ross lost his life to a domestic bull for example. This is why John Ross eventually made a special run of 5-inch barreled 500 S&W X-frame revolvers with no muzzle-brake or ports. His belief in having a carry-piece for protection that would have saved his uncle's life was so great, that he ordered a minimum run from Smith and Wesson made to his special requirements. I have spoken with him over the phone. He sales them, but he may have run out by now.
I digress though. Killing provides experience, but it is not the only requirement for validity for sharing on this site.


Edited by Jeff460 (05/02/19 12:56 PM)
Edit Reason: Addition and clarification

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#199378 - 05/02/19 10:20 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: Jeff460]
tradmark
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Not discounting you. So shooting waterbuffalo, cape buffalo, eland, elk, etc isnt? Now im really confused. Proven, i dont think so. What will potentially work, and which works well, and which works everytime are all different questions.

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#199379 - 05/02/19 11:52 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: Jeff460]
Whitworth
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 Originally Posted By: Jeff460
And dispatching bovine flesh is not big game, but still revealing, as is dropping bison.


See these two animals? Same breed, both adult bulls, both thick-skinned. The top one was killed in Argentina and was free-ranging. The other, a blonde specimen, was killed in Hondo, Texas behind a high fence. Now guess which experience was more challenging and exponentially more dangerous. It was the big blonde one. We played a game of cat and mouse with him for three days before "dispatching" him in which time he stalked us repeatedly and snuck up on us from behind more times than I care to count. Very unsettling, and very aggressive. Not all high fence operations are petting zoos. I have had fairly docile bovine bashing experiences, and more than a few that were very dicey.

Sorry for the thread hijacking.





I have used Garrett loads on a few animals and have been present when they were used on a few others, so I feel I can speak with a modicum of credibility when I say that they are probably the toughest commercially cast bullets available. They can and do fracture on occasion and while they killed everything I have seen them used on graveyard dead, you still cannot beat the consistency of the LeHighs, CEBs, or Kodiak Punches. That's just a given. The Garrett loads are however, fantastic (just wish they had a bigger meplat!).

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#199380 - 05/02/19 11:58 AM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: tradmark]
45MAN
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JEFF460: I LOVE WFN BULLETS, I SHOOT A LOT OF CAST BULLETS, AND USUALLY HAVE ONE OF MY RUGER BISLEY 45 COLTS LOADED WITH CAST BULLETS FOR WHEN OUT HUNTING WITH ANOTHER HANDGUN OR DOING RANCH CHORES, BUT EVEN THE BEST CAST BULLETS HAVE THEIR LIMITATIONS WHEN USED ON LARGER GAME, OR WHEN DRIVEN TOO FAST. CMNASH's 320gr 44 MAG WFN CAME APART AT ONLY A MV OF 1,200fps. REED USUALLY PUTS OUT GOOD AMMO BUT THIS LOAD/BULLET DID NOT HOLD UP. IF YOU ARE GOING AFTER AN EXPENSIVE ANIMAL, OR YOUR LIFE MAY DEPEND ON FAIL SAFE PERFORMANCE, USE A PREMIUM BULLET WITH PREDICATABLE BULLET INTEGRITY AND PERFORMANCE. SORRY TO SAY, BUT IMHO THERE ARE NO "PREMIUM" CAST BULLETS.
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#199385 - 05/02/19 01:20 PM Re: CAST BULLETS: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST? [Re: 45MAN]
Jeff460
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I stand by Randy Garret's, and now Ashley Emerson's, made hand-cast lead bullets with alloy that will not break, but rather bend. The refinement of the bullet and loading of 44 magnum cartridges by Randy Garret have now been passed on to Ashley Emerson.
Ashley bought the company and added 45 Colt and 454 Casull loading's to the aforementioned 44 magnum cartridges. 45/70 hard cast and other bullet-types are also available. Proving the worth of both hard cast and jacketed bullets by way of Ashley Emerson offering BOTH types for top-of-the-line performance.

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